Frank's Corner #5: In Conversation With Midwife and Matt Jencik.
Remote collaboration, post-project depression, and vocal minimalism.
We’ll never really know what it sounds like for for ghosts to harmonize. But just two weeks ago, the world was blessed, or perhaps cursed, depending on how you see it, with a striking inkling of how it might be: damaged, 8-bit samples, distorted chants through what sounds like a broken payphone, and booming synthetic strings evocative of a sort of death in waking.
Beyond a musical framework, there is an immense vulnerability that comes with spewing deep secrets to another person. It’s a new level of nakedness, however, to allow this trusted someone to recite these words through the vessel of song.
That’s the quietly radical premise behind Matt Jencik and Madeline Johnston (professionally Midwife )'s newest collaborative record, Never Die. The lyrics, written entirely by Jencik are steeped in grief and sprinkled with moments of personal narratives puppeteered by Midwife’s signature gloomy vocals. At its surface, the result is a dreary masterpiece with a level of devastation that, quite frankly, sparks a raw keenness for life when the clouds are thick.
I got the chance to chat with Matt and Madeline about this mammoth of a record (one of the best of 2025 in my humble opinion) and its unorthodox, at times hesitant process of bringing it to life.
Two absolute legends. Hope you take a read.
25F: Hi guys! Firstly, of course, congrats on an exceptional project. Does releasing a collaborative body of work to the public give you both a similar feeling every time, or is there something different about a collaborative, more concept-driven album than there is in a solo project?
Madeline: Thank you so much! For me, this release felt freer than a solo project, so I was able to enjoy the ride and rollout of it all without feeling too much pressure about anything, and that was a great feeling. A celebration. I’m so proud of Matt and to have worked together on this very special album.
Matt: As we were finishing the record, I realized that in some ways this is maybe the most pure “solo” record I’ve ever made, mainly in that it’s probably the most personal one, especially lyrically. I think Madeline completely understood that, even though we never really discussed it. I’m a big fan of Madeline’s music, and the reason that I asked her to do it in the first place is that our music shares a lot of similar themes musically and emotionally. It couldn’t have happened without her.
What recharges the urge to go back to creating something new and/or solo after being focused on something completely different (and collaborative) for so long?
Madeline: I always get super depressed after a big project is over, so it's definitely a challenge. I have to remind myself to enjoy my downtime without feeling like I’m wasting time. Currently, I’ve been really enjoying the summer off at home and trying to go outside as much as possible.
Matt: There’s always a sort of comedown period after putting out a record. We’ve been sitting on this for so long, so a lot of anticipation builds up then it’s just out. I actually haven’t been playing or writing much the last few months. Once we finished everything, I purposely took a break. I feel really good about the comments we’ve gotten so far from people about the music, and it definitely has encouraged me to want to get back at it.
Tell me about working with one another. Was the framework of this album at all conducive to the type of work you both have been releasing as solo artists over the years, sonically or thematically? Feel free to elaborate if so (or if not at all).
Matt: Madeline and I both make minimal music with sonically similar themes and drone elements, but I think we’re coming at it from different influences. It works really well, though. I can’t imagine making these songs with anyone else, really.
Madeline, does co-creating a track like Rickety Ride based on someone else's (Jencik’s) specific story or narrative ever feel like an intrusion? Is it equally, if not more gratifying, to bring someone else’s vision to life than your own? Is it more stressful? Perhaps easier?
Madeline: This track, and every song on the record, feels like a window into Matt’s story that gradually unfolded as we were working on it. Learning about the meaning of each song felt very important as part of the process; it helped me connect. Honestly, even though deeply personal to Matt’s experience, I think the songs contain universal truths and experiences you can see yourself in. This work did not feel intrusive, but became even more meaningful to me knowing the stories that carry these songs.
On the flip, Matt, does it feel hyper-vulnerable to have someone else sing about this sort of personal narrative you’ve experienced and authored?
Matt: There were a few lyrics that I was nervous about sending to Madeline. I’m glad to hear Madeline say that the more personal lyrics could relate to other people’s experiences because I really wasn’t sure if that would be the case.
Madeline, was there any hesitation to contribute to this project when it was first presented to you? Was it an immediate no-brainer? Are vocal decisions easier to make on collaborative projects like these, where there is a concept and lyrics are already partially built out from the get-go?
Madeline: Matt presented the collaboration to me at the perfect time. I didn’t have anything going on and was keen for more recording work. I always loved Matt’s music and company - It was a no-brainer. But, I did mention that I don’t really like to write lyrics for other people’s music, and being remote presented some challenges. We decided that Matt would write the songs and we would bring them to life together - in our respective studios.
Matt, I read that there was an initial sense of hesitancy to reach out to Madeline to work on Never Die. What prompted that initial pause? Is pitching a collaboration always a tough thing to bring about?
Matt: I was mostly nervous to ask her because once I started imagining how it could sound in my head, I just knew it would work, and if she had said no, I would have been super bummed!
If you were to consider all of your projects, solo, collaborative, or ones under a different moniker, as milestones or points of growth (or lack thereof) in your career, what point do you think Never Die represents or speaks to?
Matt: I think Never Die speaks to a variety of points in my music career. Some bits remind me of my first band hurl in rickety ride, the main synth part in delete key is definitely an extension of my solo albums on hands in the dark, and most of the guitar songs are in the same tuning that I mostly used in implodes.
Speaking of other projects of yours, Madeline, your album Luminol has just celebrated its fourth birthday! What does it feel like to watch collections of songs that were once private only to you become toddler-aged? Do you find that you grow more/less fond of projects as they age? Is it something you really think about at all?
Madeline: I love all my children. I love to see the progression of my work. Once there are some years on everything, you can really start to see it.
Do either of you actively listen to older music of yours? If so, what are the scenarios in which you find yourself doing so? If not, what reasons do you have for avoiding it?
Madeline: There’s some older stuff of mine I definitely feel embarrassed by, but again, it’s all part of a progression and timeline to get where we are now.
Matt: I’m definitely wary of living too much in the past. I will listen to some stuff from time to time, mainly for nostalgic reasons, but nostalgia can be a mind-killer.
Relating to your personal sound, Madeline, what was it like to create the Magic Circle pedal and condense the grief-filled heavy-metalness of Midwife into a singular unit? How has the creation of such technology taught you about the sonic universe you’ve already begun to create? What did it reveal about the potential of what you could create next?
Madeline: I had the idea for the Midwife pedal for a long time, actually. I’m thankful that it finally landed with Fowl Sounds, an incredible Denver-based pedal company.
In terms of the universe I’ve already created with my signature sound, I think the release of this pedal (and the release of the second batch of them, open right now) is extremely validating. To hear how other people are using their Magic Circle pedals and hearing my sound within their creations is so amazing.
I don’t know what I’ll make next, but I know I’ll use The Magic Circle. Currently, it’s pretty much the only pedal on my board that I’m using anymore. This pedal has a lot of longevity. We aim to keep making improvements to it with each new batch.
Was there a lot of Magic Circle implementation on this record? Any other mini bells, whistles, or samples on the project one might have missed after the first listen?
Madeline: The pedal wasn’t born yet when we were creating the album, but I used the vocal effects that I modeled the pedal after. (DD-3 Delay and Tube Screamer style overdrive).
Matt: All of the songs were recorded to a 4-track and then dumped into Ableton. Nothing too fancy. On Delete Key, I used a string sound from an 80’s Esoniq Mirage sampler. That 8-bit sample recorded to 4-track tape is why it sounds so damaged. There’s a lot of tape speed manipulation with the 4-track, slowed-down drums and synths, and some backwards stuff.
Aside from the instrumentals, Madeline, I’m curious if your commitment to “vocal minimalism” limits the direction you can take your music sonically. Does it feel like it gives you more freedom? Does it put you in a box? Is there comfort in keeping this part of your sound consistent, even if various projects of yours have different end goals in terms of sound or concept?
Madeline: I think I’ve put myself in a box, and it’s very challenging for me to get out of that box. It is nice to have consistency, but it can often feel rigid and difficult to write. Working collaboratively is a way to see out of the box, inspire new ideas, new *words*, new languages…
Matt, were Madeline's vocals a big part of your decision-making when recruiting her for this project? Do you find its sound is always evocative of grief even on her solo projects?
Matt: Madeline’s voice was the main reason that I wanted to work with her. I imagined the songs sounding like a disembodied ghost. After seeing her play in Chicago one night, I realized that her vocal manipulation in Midwife pretty much sounds just like that. There are some wonderful harmonies and a great part in the title track Never Die, which is like a round.
Are there any artists or projects, old or new, that particularly excite you guys at the moment? Who, if anybody, has been inspiring your creative processes either collaboratively or solo? Are there artists you listen to to escape your music when studio sessions begin to sound redundant?
Madeline: I’ve been listening to so much Loren Connors lately. I’d love to play guitar more like him. I fall asleep to the album Airs almost every night.
Matt: I’ve been really into Moin from the UK. I’ll listen to anything with Valentina Magaletti on drums. Joshua Chuquimia Crampton is doing some really heavy guitar stuff. I was obsessed with this UK band, The Tubs, for a bit. I saw them twice in a few weeks, and their songs were a serious earworm for me during that time. The latest Cure album has been in heavy rotation ever since it came out. I still can’t believe how good it is and how great Robert’s voice sounds. No surprise I’ve been listening to tons of Black Sabbath and solo Ozzy lately and will forever…
What’s up next for Midwife and Matt?! Any set and stone plans with (or away from) the music? Solo endeavors? Tours? Lay it on me.
Madeline: I’m laying low for the rest of the year, besides a few shows around Colorado, and the annual “Flenzcup” Flenser Showcase in Brooklyn.
Matt: We’ve been talking about maybe playing the music live, but it would be a lot of work to put a band together, so it would have to be the right situation to try it out. I have a few projects in the works. I just need to decide where to go next.
Check out Never Die on Spotify and Bandcamp. Follow Matt Jencik and Midwife on Instagram.