Frank's Corner #23: In Conversation With The Army, The Navy
Sense to song associations, scenic upbringings, and the power and magnitude of *literal* small things.
Greetings, little people on my screen. Happy to see you again. Again, my daily spiel on weather and sunlight: the days are no longer 2 seconds long anymore…hooray! I’m very excited to bring this installation to the table today. This whole discussion felt like a first step toward a post-winter defrost, and it was a genuinely lovely chat that felt crucial to my well-being.
In 2023, there was a mouse that made themselves at home uninvited and unwanted. The official tenants of the New Orleans house, Sasha Goldberg and Maia Ciambriello, in their intense efforts to forcibly evict the mouse, failed, ultimately naming the rodent Bratwurst, who would shortly give birth to Vienna, the indirect catalyst (or perhaps secret martyr) that would push The Army, The Navy to create, and ultimately post the first preview of their track Vienna (In Memorium). In a moment, an homage to the fallen roommate would see the group boost to unprecedented virality, the ballad used in hundreds of thousands of TikTok and Instagram videos, applying the lyrics of loss and remembrance to their own unique contexts.
The group has since grown away from grief in this light, keeping things full force and mighty while simultaneously finding inspiration in the little things, both literally and figuratively. In the third addition of their full-length collection, there’s a noticeable veer away from previous themes of bugs, flies, and the fruit on which they graze and/or die. Walls and Pretty, Pink, and Soft, the lead singles champion a transitional, fittingly ambitious sound that I think will rip so hard as the arrangements are prepared for the live shows (which…can we get some commotion for their Lollapalooza slot this summer?!)
These girls are geniuses and are also some of the kindest people I have spoken to. We had such a major kiki talking about color and music associations, purses, and singing lessons from the beginning until today. I hope you enjoy this chat. These two rock bigtime.
25F: Where are you guys right now?
SASHA: We’re in LA!
Sweet! How is it out there?
MAIA: It’s so hot. We are moving, so we’re just starting to plan all our moving stuff and other logistics.
I want to talk about LA too, but tell me about Mill Valley and Northern California growing up. What’s that like from a young age, living, and being around there generally?
MAIA: It’s the most beautiful place. We’re so lucky to grow up there. So close to the beach, close to the city, nestled in there.
SASHA: Yeah, beautiful mountains. It’s really a dream. It’s definitely a bubble, though. It’s a very small town with almost zero diversity, which actually sucks about that place, but I think it is a very beautiful spot to grow up, given the nature and all that stuff.
Talk to me a bit about the themes from your past that focus on things outside that crawl, squirm, and rot. Where did that recurring imagery come from?
MAIA: Since we grew up in such a beautiful place, we find nature very inspiring when we’re writing. I think we’re very drawn to natural life and the phases that a natural life has. I’m thinking about a leaf on a tree, for example. The leaf on the tree is beautiful and green, and then it falls, and it’s an individual thing, and then it starts to become brown and crunchy, and then it gets stepped on, and then you get the satisfying crunch of the leaf underneath your foot. I think that type of thing is very inspiring for Sasha and me.
Looking back at some of your old music, I wrote my own interpretation of each record, and you can fully correct me if this is off. Fruit for Flies feels like a morning record, and Sugar for Bugs feels like a night record. I’m curious what time of day the music that you’ve begun to roll out for this new project feels like. And if you have a different interpretation of what times of day those two records are, I’d be curious to hear that too.
SASHA: I feel like that’s correct. Fruit for Flies is the morning record. Sugar for Bugs is a titch darker, so definitely night. And then I think our new album is like wee hours of the morning.
MAIA: Oh, I was going to say that too. I think it’s wee hours of the morning. Like, before it’s getting light outside and you can still see the stars. That’s for sure what it is like for me. What is the definition of dusk, actually? Is that when it starts to get dark at night?
Yep, yeah.
SASHA: I’m low‑key feeling dusk, though I think it could be either.
MAIA: When I think about our new album, I think about colors, and I feel like the color scheme is very navy, ironically, and very blue and cool tones. I imagine the hours right before it start to get really dark outside. That beautiful time of day where the sun’s not completely out, but it’s not completely away either, and it feels very romantic, almost.
SASHA: Yeah, I see that too.
Do you think that classifying this album as “navy,” given your group name, makes this new music the most personal work yet?
MAIA: I definitely think so, yeah. There are a couple of songs we wrote about six years ago, “Walls” being one of them, but most of the music is very recent. It feels like it’s the most current, the most “us,” and I think we put our whole vibes into this project and our whole selves into this body of work. It feels like it’s definitely the most representative of us right now.
SASHA: Agreed.
In “Walls,” I’m curious if you guys were more trying to show the feeling of keeping someone out of somewhere, or trying to keep yourself somewhere safe inside from something or someone worth hiding from?
SASHA: Ooh, that’s a great question. I think it’s both. There are two choruses in the song, and they flip‑flop. In the first chorus, you’re saying, “I think I deserve more than that, you don’t know what I’m worth.” And then in the second chorus, you end up saying the opposite: “I think you deserve a little more than that, I don’t know what you’re worth.” I think it’s a little bit of both. And I also think that by the end of the song, it’s an acceptance that neither of us can give each other what we need. It’s an equal “we gotta let go of this,” even though it’s sad, and nobody really wants to. By the time we get to the end of the song, it’s like, “Yeah, I’m not giving you what you want or deserve, you’re not giving me what I want or deserve, and this has to end now.”
What color do you think that song is?
MAIA: Like the color of gravel.
Ooh. Tell me more.
SASHA: Like sandy, like super, super light pink grained out of rose.
That’s so funny, I wrote concrete or thick insulation.
MAIA: Exactly.
I wanted to go back to the very beginning, doing voice lessons as a child and coming into making music now. Was there something your childhood vocal coach had you do as a warm-up that now you’re really excited to break?
MAIA: Honestly, our vocal coach is so creative in the way that she taught us both how to sing; it really opened up a new world for me. She was the one who taught me to abandon the rules that I had learned in older lessons. She got really creative with describing how to sing from a certain space in your head, from a certain way of your tongue, whatever. She was the one who really inspired us, I feel like, to sing in a brand‑new way and abandon the rules.
SASHA: Yeah, if anything, we’re always trying to get back to her rules. She just has such amazing guidelines about how to sing.
Do you find, since having your coach for so long now, that you ever feel like you’re singing with a younger version of yourself?
SASHA: That’s so cute. Yeah. Honestly, I feel like a lot of the “hard” parts of my voice that I had trouble with as a kid, like maybe singing really high or whatever it was, always kind of rear their heads still in my daily life when I’m singing. So I definitely feel like a lot of times it’s like, “LOL, still need to get that down, still need to flush out that part of my voice,” and it always still comes up.
MAIA: Yep. Same. I think I’ve always had a hard time with breath support when I sing, and I tend to breathe with my mouth open, especially when I’m singing, and that’s something that Amber Morris, our voice coach, has been trying to work with me on for my whole life, and it always comes back. She’s like, “Oh, don’t forget about that habit,” and I’m like, “Oh, that one thing I’ve been doing since I was literally 11.”
Do you guys feel like habits like those ever flip? Maybe you start having one habit, and then you flip it, or flip it in a way that’s still a little weird, where people are like, “Oh, you just flipped to a new version of that, now you have to flip back again”?
SASHA: Yeah, absolutely. I think the voice changes every single day, and there are some days where I can sing the best I’ve ever sung in my life, and I have zero inhibitions, and I’m like, I could sing forever.
MAIA: Then there are some less fun days where it’s totally the opposite.
With the next single, “Pretty Pink and Soft,” talk to me about “Soft” first. Does softness feel like a strength or a weakness to you guys?
MAIA: It feels like a total strength.
SASHA: I agree, 100 percent. I think softness also implies that when I think of the word “soft,” I think of the word “kind.” And I think that is such a strength in people. True kindness for no one else’s gain, but just to be kind, is such a strength. And I think softness can be misconstrued as weak and meek, but I don’t think either of us sees it that way.
If the song were a physical object to you, do you think it would be heavy or light?
MAIA: I think it would be heavy.
SASHA: Yeah, I think so too. I feel like the song is very, honestly, berating the whole time. It’s kind of like somebody is your punching bag a little bit, and then there’s this reprieve. It climaxes, and then in the bridge, all of a sudden, it’s this really cool section. It’s like a big breath, I feel like. Which is really nice, but it’s definitely heavy and sturdy.
Why does pink feel like the specific mood for this song?
MAIA: Because I think the song is kind of “betchy” in a way. I feel like it’s very Regina‑George-ish, kind of bullying me in a way. And I’m like, it’s the pink…it has to be pink.
SASHA: Yeah.
25F: I love that, with this single and with “Walls,” I feel like both are fun and airy to an extent, but there are also a lot of devastating undertones to both of them. When you’re producing or writing, are you ever competing to see who can write the saddest lyric?
SASHA: Never competing, always cheering each other.
MAIA: Yeah, but when we do write a really devastating lyric, we both have to stop in our tracks and just be like, “!”
Is that something where you look back on your creative process, and you’re like, damn, we really did that? Or is it more like, that’s crazy we even thought to conceive something like that?
SASHA: I think it’s always kind of like, I’m proud that we can put words to feelings in a way that feels devastating to us but also like a creative outlet. I think that’s really special.
MAIA: Yeah, turning these horrible experiences and sadnesses that we’ve experienced in our lives into poetry, for lack of a better word, is very validating.
Do you find that small things, again going back to bugs, are more interesting than big things, like armies or navies?
MAIA: Yes.
25F: Elaborate.
MAIA: I love small things. You have to really look into the small things. It takes effort to find the beauty in the details and the small things. They don’t really show themselves to you at first.
What’s the quietest or smallest sound that you’ve ever recorded, either for past music or for upcoming music, that actually made it into a final mix?
MAIA: In “Walls,” there was one of our purses that we dropped on the floor.
Oh, cool. What kind of purse was it?
SASHA: It was a big‑ass bag, a brown Marni messenger, and we just kept dropping it on the ground over and over again.
What is that sound used for in the song?
SASHA: It’s used as a sort of percussion, a drummy sound at the end of the chorus.
What kind of purse do you think the Army and the Navy would be if they were one?
MAIA: Sasha has her Balenciaga City bag that I got her for Christmas, which is her favorite purse ever right now.
SASHA: And I’m a rotating‑bag girl for sure. I have a lot of great purses. But I think we’re different purses as individuals, that’s one thing I know for sure.
For some reason, I see lots of charms with bugs. I feel like there’s a little Kelly Birkin with a bit of jingle jangle here and there. I don’t know. I won’t get too distracted, ha.
SASHA: I love it. Maia and I are both big bag girls for sure.
MAIA: Yeah. A big slouchy is always important and filled to the brim with everything you could ever need and not need.
What are four essentials in a bag for the Army and the Navy?
IN UNISON: Hand sanitizer.
MAIA: Q‑tips, nail file, and Altoids. I’m not going to say anything like wallet or keys because that’s boring and obvious.
SASHA: I’m more of a gum girl, but yeah, Altoids too.
Yeah, breath control is always important, both in singing and smelling.
MAIA: Exactly!
What is the most exciting thing about this point in your trajectory, and, on the contrary, if there is any, what’s the most boring?
SASHA: The most exciting thing for me about releasing an album, or about being in this position, is once the music is recorded, building out the live show, and then eventually performing. Especially for us, since we played our first headline tour last year, and every time that we do a tour, although this is only our second tour, we grow it, and we add players to the band, and we try to make it more of a spectacle and more of a world. Building out that world is really exciting and adding stuff to the live show.
I think a part that we struggle with, and I might be speaking for Maia too, is when we’re actually recording the music, sitting in that room for two to three weeks while the music is being made. It’s both really gratifying and also extremely difficult to sit still for that amount of time.
MAIA: One of our producers, Drew Vandenberg, described it perfectly. I was talking to him about how exhausted I felt from sitting there and giving ideas, and he was like, " The reason you guys feel so exhausted is that when you’re recording for an entire day, you’re making thousands of really minuscule decisions. You don’t feel like your brain’s actively working, but it is, and all those tiny little decisions make up such an important whole that it becomes very exhausting.” Also, I am very restless by nature, so I’ve always struggled with being still in any room for a long time.
Do you find that comes from always wanting to move on to something new or just literally being antsy by nature?
MAIA: I think antsy by nature, honestly.
My last question for you, and may or may not be ever changing, but today, who do you think is the Army and who do you think is the Navy? And do you feel like that ever swaps, or maybe it’s always the same?
SASHA: I don’t think it’s ever really swapped. I’ve always been the Army.
MAIA: Yeah, she’s always been the Army, and I'm the Navy. But it’s so fluid for us. I don’t feel necessarily that we’re only one or the other. When people ask, we say Sasha is the Army, and I’m the Navy, but I wouldn’t be surprised or find it weird if there was one day where I was like, “You know what, Sasha? You’re the Navy right now.”
Listen to Walls and Pretty, Pink, and Soft out now. Listen to the new album, Fake, Brave Life, out June 12. Follow The Army, The Navy on Instagram and TikTok.